Hemel Market Rubbish

Market rubbish again before the market opens

2008-09-17T23:31:00.000-07:00

Hello Fiona , ,

The Market area was not cleaned again this Wednesday prior to the Market opening , no council cleaning was undertaken between 6.30amd and 3.00pm , frankly whoever told you it is was was lying !!

Regards

Mike

Hello Jai , pigeons still very much in evidence !

2008-09-17T23:21:00.001-07:00

Hello Jai ,

You seem to have gone quiet on your Hawk ,

The Pigeons are still in Hemel , Harbana doesn't seem to have succeeded !!

The Stalls Have been cleaned , but not very well .

2008-09-10T11:50:00.000-07:00

To Tim Button
Senior Manager Environmental Health
Dacorum Borough Council

Hello Tim ,

Well the Market tables have been cleaned after a fashion , I give the cleaner 3 out of 10 , I don't know whether you have had an opportunity to see the cleaned tables , if not there are some pictures here of the "cleaned" stalls

I understand from a friend who saw the cleaning under way that the Contractor who cleaned the tables on behalf of the council used a high pressure car cleaner of the type you can buy in Halfords , not very adequate I only , I only hope that they haven't paid the contractor yet and get him to return and do some more work to earn his money

Regards

Mike

MP to the fore ?

2008-09-05T09:08:00.000-07:00

To: PENNINGM@parliament.uk
Subject: Fwd: RE: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

Hello Mike ,

The Dacorum Conservative councils handling of the Hemel Market structure leaves a lot to be desired , and doesn't reflect well on the Conservative Party in power locally ,

it really needs guidance from a " higher power " not God

Regards

Mike

Some partial success ??

2008-09-05T08:02:00.000-07:00

To:
Subject: RE: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

Hello Collette ,

Thanks for your email , yes I have received a mail from Tim Button ,Senior Manager Environmental Health , Dacorum Borough Council who said that Peter Hamilton already has the matter in hand and that cleaning will take place in the next few days . Well done all of you !!

Unfortunately though this will just be an interim measure as unless something concrete is done the problem will only reoccur .

I understand that the " Pub " on the Market / Bus Station site is being refurbished at the moment and has a life expectancy of 7 years before it is due to be flattened for the new development , so I assume unless the council do a "Pavillion" on the Market structure and remove it , it will also be around for 7 more years ,

Surely the council should use the structure during this period to benefit the community and produce some revenue

I believe that with a modest Capital expenditure programme on the Market structure it could be readily used for alternatives to the just the market and could be used 7 days a week not 1

Regards

Mike

At 10:19 05/09/2008, you wrote:

Dear Mike, I understand that a council officer has contacted you regarding
the Market Square informing you that the pigeon mess will be cleared up
within the next few days. I hope you will agree that this is not a 'cop
out' kind regards Cllr Colette Wyatt-Lowe

Subject: Hemel Hempstead Market
To: jmw.bedford@ntlworld.com
From: Tim.Button@dacorum.gov.uk

Dear Mr Child,

Your message regarding the above has been passed to me.

I have looked at the Market Square and agree that there are areas that need
to be cleared of pigeon waste. As a result I have spoken to Peter Hamilton
in the Council's Property & Asset Management Division. He has already
arranged for this work to be carried out and I am told that this will take
place in the next few days.

Regards,

Tim Button
Senior Manager Environmental Health
Dacorum Borough Council

Oh No ! the Winos have been spiking the owl's drinking water !!

2008-09-04T07:13:00.001-07:00

2008-09-04T00:59:00.000-07:00

What are feral pigeons and how to control them , click HERE

This is a really good site for information on feral pigeons

Has the cavalry arrived ?

2008-09-03T13:16:00.000-07:00

Cc: Michael.Moore@dacorum.gov.uk
Subject: Re: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market
From: Keith.White@dacorum.gov.uk

Thank you for your email.

As you will know the Conservative run (dominated) council is going through a process of cutting services and funding for things such as maintenance of the market and street cleansing have been serverly cut.

I will however, raise the issue of cleaning of the market area and see what I can find out. I am copying this reply to my colleague Cllr. Mike Moore who is the ward councillor for Hemel Central, which includes the market.

Regards

Cllr. Keith White
Leader of the Labour Group.

Hello Jai , the pigeons take no notice of Harbana !!

2008-09-03T10:51:00.000-07:00

A spokesmen from Docorum Borough Council said: "The pigeons will learn this is Harbana's spot not theirs , ( hope they've got a red face )
NBC's blurb
Unlike audio or mechanical devices, birds never habituate to the presence of a live predator. Although unknown to the birds, falconry is a non-lethal bird deterrent measure that can be carried out without legal threat.
These systems are natural and effective in scaring birds without the need to catch the prey, making it acceptable to the public and a great opportunity for some positive PR.

Town centre pigeons 7.00am 3 9 08 they don't seem to have heard of Harbana

Town center pigeons 10.00am 3 9 08 they don't seem to have heard of Harbana but do seem to like Woolies . Click picture to see enlarged

Pigeons and mess on the market 3rd September 2008

2008-09-03T10:46:00.000-07:00

Hurray they are going to clean the tables !!

2008-09-03T10:44:00.000-07:00

To: "neil harden"

Subject: RE: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

Hello Neil ,

Thanks for your email with email copy from Peter ,

I don't think Peter's reply is particularly helpful ,

I am aware that the Market structure has a limited life due to the redevelopment plans , but I would have thought these would be "on hold " at the moment in the present economic climate , as the need for more shops ( 160,000 sq feet ) and flats and houses must have gone down in priority . I guess that the shopping area would have funded a large part of the other developments ,

I have been told by one of the shops adjacent to the market that their lease has been renewed , which I guess mean that the shops are going to be there for another three years at least and so presumably the Market Structure the same period of time .

Peter states " We installed pigeon proofing to the under side of the roof structure but in some areas this has been removed by the vandals " Yes pigeon proofing in places , but why hasn't it been put back ? Also none of the lights and much of the structure has never been pigeon proofed .

Peter states "The birds apparently sit on the fixed table tops quite regularly and for six days they have the place to themselves " , yes they have the place to themselves for 6 days , why ? Because the council and its executive have got into a mind set that as the area is to be redeveloped nothing needs to be done , I suspect if the council had its way the structure would go and there would be an empty space until redevelopment vis a vis The Pavilion a grassy knoll 2002 to 2008 until when 2020 ?!!

Peter states , " I am not sure what the long term answer is " shouldn't you employ people who do know ? It's not brain surgery an obvious solution suggests itself to anyone who visits the site and although this would involve a moderate Capital Outlay it would be beneficial to the local community for the 3 years or more ( 10 years ) that this structure continues in existence and would also generate revenue for the council over the same period .

I look forward to seeing the tables cleaned and some of the pigeon proofing being reinstated but I am not holding my breath !

Regards

Mike

At 22:33 01/09/2008, you wrote:

Dear Neil,

We installed pigeon proofing to the under side of the roof structure but in some areas this has been removed by the vandals who seem to congregate around the market at nights. The numerous take away establishments near by don't help the situation , as there always seems a ready supply of food thrown around which apart from the birds also attracts rats.
The birds apparently sit on the fixed table tops quite regularly and for six days they have the place to themselves as you are aware the general market has been relocated. We have a few years back introduced some dummy owls to the roof which worked quite well but the pigeons have recently come back with a vengeance.
I am not sure what the long term answer is but I will arrange for the table tops to be washed down and the pigeon proofing to be replaced where missing.

Regards Peter

Dear Michael,

I hope this information is beneficial for you.

Regards,
Councillor Neil Harden
Representative for Boxmoor ward
Dacorum Borough Council

From: Mi [mailto:jmw.bedford@ntlworld.com]
Sent: 28 August 2008 07:23
To: neil.harden@dacorum.gov.uk
Subject: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

This is what the council rely on to get rid of pigeons

2008-09-01T08:06:00.000-07:00

This is what the council rely on to get rid of pigeons , according to the council it has rid the Marlowes of pigeons , unfortunately I've never seen the Hawks by the Market , I guess any pigeon that temporarily leaves the Marlowes heads our way !!
NBC's two year old Harris Hawk named Habana has been busy soaring above Hemel Hempstead town centre to scare pigeons away from shopping streets. Dacorum Borough Council has drafted in the services of NBC Bird and Pest Solutions, as an answer to their pigeon problem. The council have previously spent thousands of pounds each year removing pigeon droppings and feel this environmentally-friendly method of falconry will finally rid the town of it's bird problem.

A spokesmen from Docorum Borough Council said: "The pigeons will learn this is Harbana's spot not theirs"

Harbana, and Jon Ellis the Area Manager for St Albans, Watford and Luton, have both become local celebrities in the area appearing in Hemel Hempstead Gazette, Chiltern FM and Three Counties Radio.

Below is what the falcon people really say , and why the council use it ! It doesn't get rid of the pigeons just moves them somewhere else , a bit like CCTV cameras , but it is good PR for the Council !

Falconry Response – Where clients have a population of nuisance birds but are unable to restrict their access through proofing measures such as netting, NBC Bird and Pest Solutions uses falconry response as a method of bird control, making the area undesirable to the birds and encouraging them to establish a new pattern of behaviour in another area.

Unlike audio or mechanical devices, birds never habituate to the presence of a live predator. Although unknown to the birds, falconry is a non-lethal bird deterrent measure that can be carried out without legal threat.

These systems are natural and effective in scaring birds without the need to catch the prey, making it acceptable to the public and a great opportunity for some positive PR.

Dacorum Environmental Health , What are they doing ??

2008-09-01T07:30:00.000-07:00

To: Lesley.Hastings@dacorum.gov.uk
Subject: Re: Hemel Hempstead Market

Hello Lesley ,

Thank you for your email ,

I look forward to the manager of your pollution teams comments in due course

Regards Mike

Subject: Re: Hemel Hempstead Market
To: Mi
From: Lesley.Hastings@dacorum.gov.uk

Hi Mike

Sorry haven't replied sooner but do not return to office until Wednesday
lunchtimes.

I will give a copy of your email to the manager of our pollution team for
his comments.

Regards

Lesley

Surely the Environmental health people on Dacorum Borough Council should investigate a complaint with at least a site visit rather than ask Council employees with a vested interest to comment , still it will be interesting to hear what they and Mr Guiton say if anything at all !!

3 ) ME TO ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AGAIN

To: Lesley.Hastings@dacorum.gov.uk
Subject: Re: Hemel Hempstead Market

Hello Lesey ,

Thanks for your email ,

I'm not really interested in what Mr Guiton has to say , I want to know when and what you are going to do as the environmental health department of the council

Regards

Mike

2) ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH TO ME

Subject: Re: Hemel Hempstead Market
To: Michael Child
Cc: Jim.Guiton@dacorum.gov.uk
From: Lesley.Hastings@dacorum.gov.uk

Good morning.

I am forwarding your email to Mr Jim Guiton, Town Centre Manager for his
response. His direct line number, should you wish to ring him is 01442
228338

Regards

Lesley Hastings

Mich

environmental.health@dacorum.gov.uk
28/08/2008 10:52 cc

Subject
Hemel Hempstead Market

1 ) ME TO ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH

Dear Sirs ,

I am Writing to complain about the serious health hazard of the
copious quantities of pigeon excrement on and around the stalls of
Hemel Hempstead market where my wife works on a Wednesday ,

I have been advised by the Health and Safety at Work department to
contact yourselves about this initially

The Market is covered in pigeons droppings and the council do nothing
to ameliorate the problem , you cannot place any goods on et ground
without it touching pigeons muck .

You can see pictures of this at www.hemelhemsteadmarket.co.uk and the
clicking the Market Rubbish link

Regards

M J Child

Reply to Colette

2008-09-01T07:12:00.001-07:00

Hello Colette ,

Thank you for your email ,

No I do not live in the borough , but my wife works on the market , so I have an interest in her health , and do not appreciate the disgusting surroundings that she has to work in !! . I can't see why my not living in the borough precludes you corresponding with me that seems to me to be a cop out , or is it in the local councillors manual that you can't talk to people with an interest in the town !

Although some of the pigeon proofing on the market has been vandalised , the majority of the " pigeon perches " in the market have never been covered , and you have clearly not looked carefully at the market or you wouldn't have made such an inappropriate comment

The hawks are an interesting diversion , yes the pigeons do fly away for about an hour and then return , totally cost ineffective . I'll post some more pictures on the site next week showing just how pitifully ineffective they are .

I look forward to receiving you further comments

Regards

Mike

Cllr Colette Wyatt-Lowe

2008-09-01T07:01:00.000-07:00

From: "Colette Wyatt-Lowe"
To: "'Mich'"
Subject: RE: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

Dear Michael, Many thanks for your comments on the subject of 'pigeon
muck'. I completely agree that it is unsightly and unhealthy. We do a lot
of preventative work in the town centre. You may have seen the harris hawk
which flies regularly and is approved by the RSPB as a humane method of
deterring the pigeons nesting. With regard to your comments about the
market place. Mr Hamilton is perfectly correct when he states that pigeon
prevention materials have been removed by vandals. The situation in the old
market square is being addressed as a matter of urgency and I would be more
than happy to keep you advised of measures to be taken. However, it would
be inappropriate for me to do so without first ascertaining that you are
resident within the borough. Could you please email me your full address
and I would then be happy to correspond with you. I would also like to
congratulate you on a very professional website which shows many positive
images. Looking forward to hearing from you. Kind regards
Cllr Colette Wyatt-Lowe

Oh Dear Jai , you must try harder !!!

2008-08-29T01:42:00.000-07:00

To: "Jai Restal"
Subject: RE: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

Hello Jai ,

Thanks for your email ,

Yes I have seen the hawks in action , yes the pigeons do fly away for about an hour and then return , totally cost ineffective .

The pigeon Muck on the Market has not been cleaned in at least the last two years , if you think it has please produce the cleaning log copy !!

You clearly have never visited the market or you would know the level of broken glass , empty bottles , take away meals , cigarette packs , butts and other rubbish that accumulates . I suggest you go to the market area next Wednesday at 6.00 am and see for yourself

Regards Mike

From: "Jai Restal"
To: "'Mi
Subject: RE: Pigeon Muck on Hemel Market

Dear Michael,

Thank you for your e-mail today.

I am pleased to say that the pigeon situation in Hemel town centre is being managed.

The council is taking a proactive approach to deterring pigeons and their by-products from the town centre by introducing a natural predator to the area.

You may see our hawk flyers van’s parked up in the town centre from time to time while the hawks are patrolling the sky’s above scaring away a vast number of pigeons. You may even be lucky enough to see one of them in flight (the hawks that is not the vans?).

If you get a chance to see one of the birds up close or in action I would take the opportunity as they are fascinating creatures!

Obviously there will be the odd bird which will inevitably “slip through the net” but the numbers of pigeons in the town centre is dropping!

With regard’s to cleaning up the by products of pigeons we do have a regular cycle of cleaning which takes place in all areas of Dacorum.

The length of the cycle is dependent on the use/general cleanliness of that particular area, although I am not entirely sure how regular the market place is cleaned.

I will endeavour to find out for you and I have passed your e-mail on to the relevant contacts to investigate this matter further for us.

I am sorry that you feel this way but I hope that my e-mail has gone some way to reassure you that we do care about this and we are working for a cleaner, safer Dacorum for all to enjoy.

Kind Regards

Cllr Jai Restall

Councillor for the ward of Gadebridge

Dacorum Borough Council

Pigeon Muck , Why is it never cleaned up ?

2008-08-28T07:47:00.001-07:00

The pigeon muck on Hemel Market is never cleaned up , if anyone were to slip on it and injure themselves , I guess they would make a claim against Dacorum council , preumably Dacorum's insurers would refuse to pay out as the council haven't maintained the property ( bearing in mind Insurance companies will always try and get out of paying if there is the least reason not to ) . This would leave the Council to pay the bill , ie from the council taxpayers revenues , if this happened , I guess it would be open to any local taxpayer to get the councillors to pay themselves , as they are clearly not getting the executive to act !!

Pigeon faeces

2008-08-28T06:08:00.000-07:00

The presence of feral pigeons and most especially their faeces represents a potential health hazard to employees and to the general public. This is particularly so when large accumulations of filth build up inside a building. They are commonly carriers of a number of serious human diseases including salmonellosis, psittacosis and pseudo-tuberculosis. Their faeces provide an ideal environment for the growth of the organisms causing such diseases as histoplasmosis, aspergillosis, cryptococcis and listeriosis. Although the risk of infection from pigeons may be relatively low, the diseases are severe and may be life threatening. Pigeon faeces represent a health and safety hazard for employees who have to remove them or work in their vicinity. They are thus a special problem in the renovation of buildings where large accumulations have been allowed to build-up. Dealing with such accumulations can be expensive and time consuming because of the protective equipment and procedures that may be required. Health and safety problems are also caused by the build up of faeces due to the slippery and unsafe footing it provides on walkways and ledges hindering proper maintenance

http://www.handr.co.uk/literature/feral_pigeons.htm

Other councils apart from Dacorum seem to take a more robust approach !!

http://www.wyreforestdc.gov.uk/ccm/content/clacs/street-scene-services/feral-pigeon.en;jsessionid=CB832AE7BBEC7598D0F8D5BA711DFAF4

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/pestcontrol/pigeons/infosheet

How Do Birds Pass on the Infection to Humans?
Humans can become infected with Chlamydia psittaci ( Newcastle Disesae ) by breathing in the organism when the urine, respiratory secretion, or dried faeces of infected birds is dispersed in the air as very fine droplets or dust particles.

All birds, both domestic and wild. Most susceptible are domestic chickens, turkeys, pigeons and parrots. Milder disease is seen in ducks, geese, pheasant, quails, guinea fowls and canaries.

Easily spreads by contact with infected or diseased birds. The virus is excreted in manure and is expired into the air. Other sources of infection are contaminated equipment, carcasses, water, food and clothing

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/health/3950.html

http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/safety/legislation/psittacosis.asp

Pigeon Muck , Why is it never cleaned up ?

2008-08-28T05:59:00.000-07:00

Reply to letter from Mr Peter Hamilton

2008-08-28T02:42:00.000-07:00

Dear Mr Hamilton ,

Thank you for your letter of the 22nd August ,

Frankly I find your reply disingenuous .

I know that the Town and Country market manager picks up some of the rubbish left on the Market from the day before , but how you can say that this is the responsibility of Town and Country Markets is beyond me , the rubbish has nothing to do with Town and Country , it is deposited there the evenings and nights before the Market starts and surely is the councils responsibility and you should ensure that the Market is cleaned beforehand.

With the regard to the pigeon mess most of it is underneath light fitting and other structures which have never been pigeon proofed , and why can't you clean the foul tables ?

I am taking the matter of the pigeon mess up with the environmental health department as it is definitely unhealthy to have to work in such surroundings

Regards

Why won't the council clean the market area .

2008-08-28T02:27:00.000-07:00

Why won't the council clean the market area . The stalls are filthy the whole area is run down why don't they do something about it ?? The redevelopment of this area must have been put on hold as who wants new shops in Hemel , there are empty shops all over the place , still 12 of the new shops by Debenhams are empty , empty shops in the Marlows , in the Old town etc etc .

Pigeon muck market

2008-08-28T02:19:00.000-07:00

The Council states that the pigeon muck problem is due to " vandals removing pigeon proofing " , not true most of the pigeon muck covered areas are under lamps and other fitting which have never been protected .

Dacorum Borough council NOT working with the community

2008-08-28T02:08:00.000-07:00

The Council state that " cleaning the Market on a Wednesday is the responsibility of Town and Country Markets " , this beggars belief how can the Market operator be resposible for rubbish dumped in and around the market on Tueday evening and night , the council should clean the Mraket before it opens , including the spilt alcohol and vomit from the stalls .

Hemel councils response to a rubbish Market

2008-08-28T02:00:00.000-07:00

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